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The widow, a use?

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Von Kroll Caldari m3 Corp R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.08.10 11:25:00 - [1] The ECM burst on a Widow is vicious. Almost a 100% chance to break lock against anything in-game not fitted with ECCM. Another capability that hasn't been talked about here is the ability to bridge ships into cyno-jammed systems. During the Provi-War last year, -A- and others used BO bridges to bridge in blockade runners carrying towers that became their staging points. Moving high-value cargo around via blockade runners and the covops bridge also has some serious potential utility. I think anyone using it for conventional jamming (aka Scorp) isn't being creative enough. The Widow will never be more cost-effective than the Scorpion for straight jamming. I will agree that the fuel mechanic needs to be changed, and they most certainly need the covops cloak. I don't mind the expense of the ship if these two characteristics are changed.
Von Kroll Caldari m3 Corp R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.08.10 16:41:00 - [2] Originally by: Wacktopia I would only support the covops cloak if they nerfed the offensive capabilities of BOs. The lack of the covops cloak is an important distinction to prevent cloaky battleships warping about the shop. In the true BO role, they do not need offensive capabilities (being essentially logistical) - remove this and the covops cloak would be fine. The thing about the BO, or at least the Widow, is that it can't be all things at once. It can be a semi-heavy hitter, can be a cloaky gang support ship, or a bridge. It can't do all of these simultaneously. Also, they are practically the most expensive sub-capital PvP ships in the game and they are the most skill intensive. The cost and skill requirements keep them from being imbalanced, should they ever get a CovOps cloak. You could make an argument, IMO, that they are too expensive and skill intensive for their current capability. Even with CovOps cloaks, folks are still going to think hard about taking a 750 mil - 1 bil isk fitted ship into direct combat. Personally, I think you could make another argument that the jump range should be greater as well, but I'd settle for more efficient fuel useage and the cloak.
Von Kroll Caldari m3 Corp R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.08.10 19:16:00 - [3] Originally by: Meeko Atari All I think the ship class needs ( even if the Cov-Ops Cloak is or is not allowed ) is the ability to jump into a system without the need for a Covert Cyno alt. I have a Jump Drive... I should be able to use it to jump within my range without the need for an alt. Why? You can't do that with a capital ship.
Von Kroll Caldari m3 Corp R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.08.10 20:27:00 - [4] Originally by: Vmir Gallahasen Originally by: Von Kroll Why? You can't do that with a capital ship. Not been reading the thread? Because planting forces in hostile territory is ******ed when you need forces in hostile territory in order to do it, and when those forces you're capable of planting can get there on their own in the majority of situations. The ship isn't even used in its listed role, it just dumps covert ops ships onto people. And if all of those people weren't in covert ops but regular ships, then whatever system you're dumping them in wouldn't be hostile territory (temporarily anyway) in the first place. You (or your character at least) have been around the game long enough that you should know better. Oh well, I'm not here to change your mind.
Von Kroll Caldari m3 Corp R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.08.11 11:48:00 - [5] Originally by: Vmir Gallahasen Edited by: Vmir Gallahasen on 11/08/2010 06:13:46 Originally by: Von Kroll You (or your character at least) have been around the game long enough that you should know better. Oh well, I'm not here to change your mind. Are you another EFT armchair Blops pilot? 'Hey, look what it can do with an ECM burst!'. Seriously? You'd waste a slot on an ECM burst to break (not jam) the locks of other ships including your allies which all jumped in with you? Once every 30 seconds? If you thought that was a good idea, you certainly wouldn't be in any black ops gang with me. Yep, you made me--EFT warrior to the bone. I don't understand why you're getting so antagonistic. We were all having a fairly civil discussion here. We were talking about capabilities and uses. Not some lock-step, pigeon-holed role defined by the FOTM club. Yes I do know what an ECM Burst does to friendly locks, so ultimately, there must be some other use that I'm thinking of that you aren't. And, don't worry. I can safely say that you'll never have to worry about flying in a BO gang with me.
Von Kroll Caldari m3 Corp R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.08.11 15:31:00 - [6] Originally by: Vmir Gallahasen Originally by: Von Kroll We were talking about capabilities and uses. Not some lock-step, pigeon-holed role defined by the FOTM club. Yes I do know what an ECM Burst does to friendly locks, so ultimately, there must be some other use that I'm thinking of that you aren't. I'm just tired of the 'they're fine! but I don't actually fly one' crowd. They're not fine. Fly one and see. I'd love to hear more about this other use you're talking about, by the way. I honestly can't think of any use for an ECM Burst in a crowd of friendlies that will be clustered tightly around you when you're in a superior fleet attacking an inferior fleet, which is the only condition Blops are used in. Or what any use outside of that would be worth risking a 500m isk hull in when there's a 40m isk hull that'll do almost the same thing Look, I don't pretend to know all the answers about BO employment. I have flown in and have been the victim of BO/CovOps gangs, so I know all about the conventional uses. All we started discussing were some of the other, less conventional uses or potential uses. I believe there are a number of ways they could be used away from the normal CovOps Hot Drop you see so much. Yes, in those cases, you do typically get a larger BO gang taking on a smaller victim or victim gang. Once, Noir dropped about 8 BO on a PXF gang I was in, and they didn't outnumber us. They quickly mopped up those of us that couldn't escape. I'm in the Widow camp, which is what the OP started this thread about anyway. I don't know if your BO of choice needs to be different. I like the Widow and the capabilities it has. YMMV.
Von Kroll Caldari m3 Corp R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.08.12 01:00:00 - [7] YMMV = Your mileage may vary... aka your experience may differ from mine...

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